This is Hacker Public Radio Episode 3,813 for Wednesday, the 15th of March 2023.
Today's show is entitled, the Post Market OS Podcast.
It is part of the series podcast recommendations.
It is hosted by Kent Fallen and is about 32 minutes long.
It carries an explicit flag.
The summary is, Ken welcomes a new podcast to the free culture podcast family.
Hi everybody, my name is Ken Fallen and you're listening to another episode of Hacker Public
Radio.
Today, another one in our podcast recommendations series and it is Post Market OS Podcast,
which is the podcast for the Post Market OS Project.
And from their website, post Market OS.org, we are sick of not receiving updates shortly
after buying new phones.
Sick of the world gardens deeply integrated into Android and iOS.
And that's why we are developing a sustainable privacy and security-focused free software
and mobile operating system that is modeled after a traditional Linux distribution with
privileged separation in mind.
Let's keep our devices useful and safe until they're physically break.
I'm all in board with that.
And the good news is they have recently joined the Free Culture Podcasts Network and as such,
this is a sample episode to promote their show, sit back or relax and enjoy.
I'm interested in your microphone.
So, I don't have the wise.
Hello and done.
Hello and done.
Hello and done.
Live.
Live from Post Doom.
We won't be live though because it's a recording.
Yeah, let me know.
Let's watch enough.
Yeah, close enough.
Sorry.
Almost live from Post Doom.
Yeah.
What is 20 preying?
Yeah.
Is there a preying?
Yeah.
I'll see you later from Post Doom.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What episode do we have?
28.
21.
Okay.
Live from Post Doom.
It's the Post Market OS podcast.
This is it.
This is Clean.
Also known as CraftyGay.
Hello.
I am Martin.
Hello.
I'm Peter.
And I'm Bart.
This is an on-peer trail.
I'm Caleb.
I'm Oliver.
And I'm Luca.
So many people.
Yes.
We all have together.
Sitting together.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Are we?
We are currently outside of a cafeteria, I think, all huddled together outside.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We really need to add the picture of the studio at the podcast.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think this is like the first time most are all the core team has been together in person.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Not all of us, but most.
Yeah.
I mean, I was there previously, so.
I mean.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, the same also not everybody's here like.
Yeah.
But it's close.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we are having a ton of fun here.
We saw a lot of talks.
So today is Saturday.
There was the death room, which was amazing.
And yeah.
Just like every talk I saw was great.
I missed like two or so.
How did your talk go?
Yeah.
My talk about on the F2 went well.
I think so.
Yeah.
Prepa seemed to dress it.
And I think for a lot of people was the first and we heard about it, right?
Because they know our company in solar.
Yeah.
What was your favorite moment part?
Well, I haven't been to the talk, so.
Yeah.
Probably not.
In general.
Well, just all day.
I don't have a specific moment to talk to tons and tons of people.
Lots of interesting conversations.
I was excited.
Yeah.
It was good.
Lots of people that were on a new postmark.
And Linus Mama General.
But also people that didn't know at all.
And then had to explain the basics, which was ours.
But yeah.
Yeah.
Pretty good.
Definitely.
But you're in the booth or the stand all day.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I have sore legs now.
Yeah.
It's good to sit down.
First time to sit down.
How many hours?
Well, since this morning like nine o'clock so.
Yeah.
I had 45.
Yeah.
Quite a few hours.
Yeah.
So we have a lot of new recruits now.
Yeah.
Definitely.
Yeah.
Why also?
We'll see.
Like I was really impressed with us.
One kid fought in your old.
And said, you put it.
The banana phone actually.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, banana phone.
It's the Nokia 8110 4G.
Yes.
That's good to know.
But that you know the net.
It comes in black and yellow.
And yellow one is the banana phone.
Okay.
The black one is the one that's in the matrix.
Nice.
Oh.
Okay.
So the model.
I was wondering how it was 14.
Really.
Yeah.
Wow.
That's really awesome.
That's cool.
Yeah.
And it runs mainline.
Yeah.
So amazing.
And even foshes running.
So I mean, you can use it.
Sort of.
Sort of.
It's running.
You can unlock the screen.
Someone.
You can never get a run.
You can even launch apps.
But then that crashes.
Yeah.
Well, it's definitely cool.
Amazing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's the device.
Yes.
There's no touch screen on that, right?
No.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I wonder what it actually acts like.
The Mo would do with like all the input.
Yeah.
That might work.
Pretty much.
Yeah.
I mean, it's very simple.
I mean, it's not really a success.
Like three buttons.
And now it has like 14.
Yeah.
That'd be cool.
Does it actually have volume keys?
I think it does.
And it has enter and backspace to function keys.
Yeah.
You get a few bonus buttons.
Although that the full are keypad of course.
And the dedicated button to pick up course.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's useful.
Yeah.
What's probably one of the most popular devices on the table?
Yeah.
It's just so like being yellow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can't miss it.
Yeah.
It's amazing.
Yeah.
At one point, Lima developer came to the table and asked about pine phones.
And like they don't receive that money box.
And how that comes to be.
And yeah.
We figured it's kind of mostly working.
And also there are some box upstream and a major.
But yeah.
It seems to be working pretty well.
Overall.
And I asked if what they're left to do.
And the few things.
Yeah.
Basically he said the performance.
But it's possible to improve the performance.
But they would need proper box support.
It's for that.
So if somebody is interested in improving the performance of Lima.
And then you can run profiler and see where the bottlenecks are in your apps, in your environments.
And then file a back report.
That's basically what he said.
So what's really nice conversation.
And Lima is the pine phone and GPU driver?
Yeah.
Yeah.
For the Marley GPU.
Totally GPU.
Awesome.
I think it's fighting the context.
Yeah.
No.
I wasn't sure.
Cool.
Your notes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We don't have any notes.
I don't.
We're freestyling.
No.
Yeah.
Always prepared.
But I think we exhausted.
I can't.
So I thought it was cool how many people were interested in the stand.
It seemed like every time I walked by, it was packed.
Yeah.
It wasn't a good spot as well.
We were supposed to be in a different building.
But we got switched on and away.
But it got switched to probably a better place.
Because it was right next to the entrance of the room.
Yeah.
The upstairs.
Like it's the first thing on the left side.
Yeah.
I think it wasn't for you, which is nice.
If you wanted to see like the other 16 or so stands, you had to go next to us.
That's where.
It was pretty good.
And also when the talk was over like upstairs, they would all go down.
Right.
Come to us.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
That's the point where you cannot hear what anyone is saying anymore.
It wasn't that bad.
Wow.
It wasn't too great either.
No.
Yeah.
But also for the.
Yeah.
I haven't been in the talks, but I hear it was also backs.
Yeah.
The room was right.
Yeah.
The room was pretty full for most of the ones I attended.
I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like when the FF on talk started.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
And then it got packed.
Yeah.
Lufus talked.
It was like everybody.
It falls in was trying to get in that room.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, it's cool.
It's a cool shop.
Like on the shit.
Main line.
It's always good.
On the fair phone.
I got here and she's a lot better.
At the end of the day.
I started the game from my mother died the great.
Like M.C. to hold thing and did a great job there.
Yeah.
Like really finding persistence between the talks and I guess they choose.
We're pretty good, yeah.
Yeah.
It was nice.
He puts some thought into that.
So I have one more story on my note.
Two guys came by and once said that he has.
He's using something.
He comes up.
Runs it as tails, scale, tunnel, something like this and he was like, oh, it's amazing that he can put the phone to you and
Also
Start it I've had to be a bootstrap to give something back. So this was awesome. Very cool
And there's some a downstream caramel kernel and right, all right
I'm not sure actually what need to look at the device
Let's go actual use case. Yeah, yes, let's not just regular phone usage. Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's go like
A respiratory pile or something. Yeah, obviously, yeah, one of the favorite people that
I've talked so I had to stand with that somebody
Found out that firefox OS still is alive through KIOs
Yes, there's also this open source one right
It's being continued
Capaloon
What were your favorite moments?
Oh, by the way, I think that some context Peter's from Lynm up. Yeah, right there. Oh,
It's good. It's good. It's good. It's at Lynm up.net and I've got an atmosphere which I
I'm a bad maintainer of sorry
The next phone up stock and I wasn't this podcast before so yeah, but I'm here at first them and
I attended all the talks of the
Force on mobile track and they all were great and my highlight was the non-linux talk actually about
Genode. Ah, they want to miss them. Oh, I wanted to see the one too. There's it's so different
My cocoonel and they've got a visual interface so that where you can see what and
App or some software that's running is connected to so if you don't want your
I don't know an app to touch the file system
You can basically
Graphically make it so that it doesn't have access to the file system. Well, cool. Yeah, and a pretty
Cool interface and it's really tiny also so if you want to try that it's just a don't know that's maybe less than this episode of the podcast
It's really like 20 megabytes or something
But it's all custom so you you won't get your normal stuff right easily
But they they ported
Morph browser from you'll be ports
Wow, you've you've a bunch of touch over to
Genode and that ran okay, so you can actually run basic chromium on this. Yeah
Wow, that's impressive. That's impressive. And so is it their own kind of from scratch or was it yeah?
It's some microcoronel thing framework. I don't know. They've been at this for years from what I've heard and it's a small company
Actually in Dresden, Germany. No, so it seems to be even a business if I understood it correctly and yeah
It's one of those cool niche projects that really do something different. Have a different take like
No, we don't want those large
Change sets that you have on colonel
We want us to kernel release that you can't really review on your own right?
Nobody can do that
Many types of code
Only only and
Yeah, but it's really amazing to see this totally different thing working on hardware that I'm quite familiar with with the pine phone and
That was really cool, but the rest of the box was also quite quite cool
No bad talk
That's good
Oh, that's why we went for it. And lin mob stickers, which is fantastic. Yes, yeah, you did one and you won
So we've done someone was looking for you to move but you weren't there, so oh sorry, hopefully you come back tomorrow
Yeah, that'd be good. Yeah, that was your talk, Clayson
I don't know you tell me I haven't been there, so you tell me
Or somebody else maybe as like the title was like how do we go from here? Yeah, where do we go from here?
Boston right the vent. Yeah, I don't like it home and like where the beer is then
No, it was an attempt to get people within the community to think about how to become more organized and not
Wasted as much time solving the same problems that other people have solved another distributions and
Yeah, I don't know it's just a way to try to move things a little forward. Like I saw it so maybe in the direction of like
Getting new features that like nobody has working gets so I guess I was a voice of 80 might be my pitopic
There's like anybody that knows anything about it kind of kind of yeah say hey, hey, this is maybe how
Qualcomm doesn't this is maybe the things you need to do and maybe links to some existing resources some month
You might find use for and also of course like cameras and all the other things where
Yeah, which are just not really working yet on Linux mainland. Yeah. Yeah, so from what I've seen it got a lot of interest
a lot of interest and a lot of people asked questions afterwards and you set up a matrix room where a lot of people joined already
So yeah, it's a lot of good ideas already people proposing stuff and yeah, I mean it's
Yeah, my goal is just just get people thinking and talking about it and because I don't I don't know what the answers are really
But I was my ideas and yeah, it's good to to bring this up and cutting it on it
I think there's no answer and I think it's not solved on the desktop either
Yeah, especially does that yeah the thing is while it's unsolvable
You must work on trying to solve it otherwise things get worse and worse, so that's
tedious, but necessary and good for
Well also mental head, I think
Yeah, all this double-cate effort right yeah, yeah, someone's working on on a thing and then somebody else
Comments that motoricus right before yeah, and that can be
Because it could be a little great waiting and yeah, it's not not too great, so like maybe from past examples
I guess what they learned did like with the all this is blue to all your
Things so like with the car control and everything there like it would would have been basically a topic for
For this I guess yeah, yeah, sure because I mean it's not not specific to post micro so I any other Linux
Is just just yeah, just in general yeah, yeah, there's lots of examples of
Duplicated effort or things being implemented that like the whole MMS support
I mean that that was that turned out well because I mean I was one of the early contributors with Chris and
Uh, it worked out pretty well for us, but a lot of distros like kind of make some changes to it after the fact
And so they were trying to play catch up and yeah, I would have been easier if just like everyone who wanted this was at the table
When it was being worked on and could provide input so the first thing they came out was like
gonna work I guess
Yeah, and I think it's also powerful to have like some
shared website maybe
It's it's easy out for people who have no clue about what just
Well, just basically to get a first idea of what the project happened. Yeah, yeah, actually one of the
Really cool things that happened during my talk at the end was um, there was a person there who was not technical at all
He actually like worked for a school district in this area and which is here just out of interest and
And he was really excited that in my talk I mentioned like we need to be better about communicating publicly
What we're doing to non-technical people so they have some idea like what's going on and why what we're all about and and
Why it's a good thing and so just just hearing that from somebody like yeah
I have no idea what you're about and it's frustrating today because
There's a lot of information and it's it's mostly technical and so
People like he was like people like me
Get frustrated trying to piece it all together and you know give up
Yeah, so that was nice and like I was kind of given that there's a whole deaf room for it at first them like but there's no
Like for example, if you go to containers, I mean that there's a Wikipedia page for it that explains like what what this what it does
Or a million other blockposts but for the first and more devices like
Why should you care? Why is it important what exists what can you do with it?
Exactly
So who didn't say much yet?
I don't know I'll chip in I guess I thought I was really well laid out. I was kind of hyped the sea clenance look at the end
Yeah, very nice closing talk really
At and of the day so well, I'm like the thanks
Yeah, you should absolutely go catch the recordings. I think
Depending on this is release. They may be linked down
Don't let maybe you should be looking at my time. He's he's looking at I don't know how fast for stem is with release in the video
Yeah, I think everything after after one PM they have sent out review emails but everything before I was
I'm technically it's like next week or so. It's just look for it. We will link it
Yeah, I guess moving on I have to say it's amazing seeing all of the bases. I know we kind of open with this but
Cuz I I
Didn't get involved in the community until after covid
So this is the first time for me meeting like
The dozens of people I interact with the online so it's
I don't know it's super cool. Yeah, I
Yeah, I've been working with some folks here for like almost six years now. It's still have a single person
So first time for me too. Oh, it's awesome. Yeah
I have a funny story from yesterday, so we were at the restaurant and they wanted us to
Tell them we are in my which food we want to order before hand so they can prepare and we did that and then the food arrived and we didn't know what we put down
Yeah, so we said okay put all the food on a table and we looked up in our it's a pad
What what
We did it it worked out. It was fine
That's great food
Well, it was also kind of amazing at fasting is like you see just not even not just softer people
But like people involved in like the the whole community kind of from from every single
From every single area like from the
Free softer foundation Europe or some people again that I met at some point and I was from actually for my previous job
I've like one guy came by and I said hello. He was there for the weekends
So I was super cool. There are also loads of people who have
Contributed to post my class and some of you came by and yeah, I saw some people who have who have done some
Sound dragon eight forty five things just show up, and I'm like oh, oh, yeah, it's you awesome
Yeah, it could see like um
David Hitler, I guess
Yep, yeah
It's cool stuff
Definitely yeah
Did anybody see any other talks that I call
Outside of the Deffram outside of the Deffram
Doesn't seem like it now. I hardly have seen any talks
Yeah, I don't see anyone
Do other talks outside the Deffram?
Yeah, so I saw a few in the embedded room at the end was like one about like
Medical respirators like open how to project which was quite well. It was actually quite fascinating like
I was actually for the talk before and for the talk after but I stayed in between was really interesting
Like open how to just cool in general. I think
Like when they build its modular and stuff like this. It's really cool to see
Yeah, and it was very intentionally designed that way too, which is cool because this it was I think it was a non-profit company that
Like very explicitly went for this type of design
So that other people could build them in the world and I mean respirators are you know important when you need them
So making it easily
Reconstructed elsewhere without having to go through licensing and whatever
Required that you probably have to do if you wanted to get one
There wasn't open hardware now. It was nice
So yeah, that was cool talk. Yeah, that was amazing. Oh, on the topic of open hardware
We also had the M&T pocket reform at the stand today. That was cool. Yeah, I got out of interest as well M&T for
For coming along. I guess
I'm trying to think of things to say
I ran on thing
That pit I know that on this I think that two phone two presentations were run on phones actually right in the devil really
Yeah, yeah, so the first one which was about Lumiri and convergence so
Running on a fair phone four running you bunch of touch
run from the phone
felt like I've read it done that before because he was so chill
Yeah, yeah, just it ain't right a fade started in time still
The box like oh, I also had my USB keyboard with me
You can even use it and it's super smooth
It's nice. I thought it was funny because like the device kept locking every so off. Yeah, and yeah, it just like seamlessly
You know a lot keep going and like not a problem. Yeah, I don't know you may talk to about it
That's okay, I'm not too move on. Yeah, it's been too long on the slide it locks. Yeah
Yeah
Great talk and the other one was from Mobion right yeah, yeah, I think so
I know live in five
Yeah, like on a nice lock
Yeah, yeah, thank you very
Made for the living five it probably wasn't because I don't know how to use made a dog really fits that thing
Didn't look like it fits it so
Locked for the live professional
Like nice connecters on the side really cool. I was not brave enough to try that
Yeah, I wasn't magic happy to finish up my target. Yeah, so I think actually I think in like 20
I guess 20 20 year I think we were like for the pine for the rich and pine phone
We were also kind of kind of planning to do a talk on the pine front itself like using convergence or kind of convergence
Back in the blacking in an external display and doing it with it, but I don't think we actually did this in the end
But yeah, I mean now we had at least two talks on it and it's super nice next year all the time
Yeah, maybe actually we'll be talking about the one person who had a laptop
Somebody doesn't trust the software stack
And then for us be I could be recorded on a Linux phone maybe too
Yeah, outside of the death room there were so there was one talk on camera stuff in the first and more by death room
But there were two more in the
Room embedded room embedded
I talk by a little camera. Yeah, one about the camera and one about augmented devices which may or may not be relevant to pine for too
I don't know so I have to catch up on those
Yeah, I always have a lot of talks in my list that I unfortunately not have to go time to get to because there's so many people
Yeah, that's how it bites out
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I still have to really have to catch up on some
Whatever, I'm sure they were great
Amazing anymore
Stories you want to tell anyone
Well, that was the one
We have to date you, but Martin doesn't plan to carry the podcast equipment tomorrow
Yeah, that we have to release to episodes. Yeah, right? Yeah, that's not to that. Yeah
Well, I think this is going to be a lot of amazing track talks talk tomorrow
Yeah, you can also I mean, yeah now now when you're here to subscribe so it you can watch the recordings of it
But yeah, yeah, maybe you can come next time. That's okay. Yeah, come 2020 for it
I guess very most likely the first week in the February power definitely in brass
Yes
We'll get a move again in the death room again
I don't think any other university would be willing to host so many people with like so many
rooms open at the same time. No
Yeah, oh, I recruit another team that sets it up or because I mean, I don't know I think we had 30 or 40 rooms in parallel
And they they all had a had a beautiful made first time box like the video box
with like a big bag of adapters for like I mean for for for for the first mobile devices room
We had literally we needed a VGA to HMI adapter and of course it wasn't a bag
I was so funny like they were panicking of it like who has the adapter and the the first draw
I don't know nobody had something and then we figured oh, there's a bag with a
weapon here in front
What's funny, but it actually works fine, so I mean, it's like a wonderful adapter with an extra USB connection
Oh, wow talk I believe about the camera. It was also a great talk
Yeah, yeah, he did it on an old think pad X 2020. I don't know like that you know the exact model number of course
I just guess definitely look like this. Yeah, yeah, it was definitely a 220 or 230
So when okay, I've been to a lot of conferences for like previous jobs and this was the first conference
I've been to where I traveled to another country and
Went through passport control and the officer there was like are you here for the open source conference?
I was like, yeah, it's like, okay
That's good go on
How many of you said no, no, probably still be there now
What else do you need to do the full jack three hours? Yeah, yeah, you can insert you
What else would an American do in Brussels?
Yeah, he seems the best of a red now
Yeah, and London that you had to stop this year in the airport
Yeah, yeah, when you arrived in the game Russell's yeah, I was going through
Immigration yeah, because my connection was in the UK which is, you know, not not part of the EU anymore
So this is my adventure
Yeah, not only connection, but yeah, yeah, yeah long trip. Yeah, yeah, but I hope it was worth it in the end
Yeah, I think so
I'm sure are still still waiting up, but yeah, I think it's a little gel like but not you bad
And I must say it's amazing to do this podcast here outside in front of the cafeteria
Lots of noise in the background, but
That's a little bit chilly. Yeah, it's too next period. Yes, yeah, it's authentic
By the way, we're four different microphones. Yes, so I connected it to a fancy recording box
This is the first time using all this hardware. Yeah, happy it works
What does it? But I also fancy headphones on to monitor what we're talking about
It's like a radio DJ yeah, yeah, yeah, we're just radio hosts now
Yeah, I'm not really a professional
Yes, and the stairs still may end up being the quickest recording of a podcast episode ever
I think maybe maybe we don't have any any delay between talking as soon as I'll
Yeah, it's a natural conversation. Yeah, yeah, it makes discussion so much easier also because you can see each other
You know when somebody wants to say something
You remember that I shouldn't just not are long, but I'll just say yeah
Machine it is every month
Yeah, like get later over and it will be half way like I'm a bit in the Atlantic
Everybody fine, right now. Yeah, that's going to boil. Yeah, that's good. Oh, it's broken. Yes, but
Yeah, sure, it proves there we go. I mean probably half ways on Amazon the East Coast of the
Like North Carolina or something
Probably not where you are
People are walking paths with trolleys
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the first one
A few cars. That's fine. That's good. Yeah
So shall we wrap it up?
Custelle? Yeah, we have almost six exactly 13 minutes now. Oh, amazing. Oh, nice. I've had that time
So as long as you don't cut anything out, we're exactly 30 minutes. Yeah, but yeah, also need to record the
Outro now, of course, the Outro and take foster mautro. Yeah, yeah, I will try to remember the text
Under you want to do it. I don't remember it. Okay. I'm a little rusty. Yeah, something like
I don't know where I craft it. Oh
Yeah, I'm a rusty guy. Thank you for listening to our episode. We hope you're enjoyed it
That's part of it. I'm not sure if it's that's a bit more infusion, please. Okay. Okay, I will try again.
Take you. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, thank you for listening to our episode
If you want to comment about it, leave a comment that the Masadon post
If you want to buy a shirt, I'd have what to post. Magda is the dog's nash merch
And if you want to do none of that, that's also fine
Yeah, have a great day, I guess that's not part of that. And I'll sing down to you.
In the music. Yeah, yeah, the music, but yeah music for today's episode
And every Friday, old school beat. Yeah, in every
Friday, old school beats by the passionate high-five legends by
Creative comments by a share I like I believe or something
Also whoever walked past while singing. Yeah, we don't know how that's lessons, but we hope it's it's
It's fleet green. Yeah, so be fine.
A part of this contest.
Yeah, a bit more a little bit
Dept.
We should all live all of this inr your, cierto!
very offensive You have been listening to hacker public radio at hacker public
radio.org. Today show was contributed by a HBR this night-like yourself,
if you ever thought of recording podcast, you click on our
contributing to find out how easy it means hosting Strange VR is
kindly provide us by an onsthost.com, the Internet Archive, and our Sync.net.
On the satellite stages, today's show is released on our Creative Commons,
attribution for going to international license.